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	<title>Comments on: Are PhDs a Waste Product?</title>
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	<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2008/10/are-phds-a-waste-product/</link>
	<description>From InterVarsity's Emerging Scholars Network</description>
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		<title>By: LABH SINGH</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2008/10/are-phds-a-waste-product/comment-page-1/#comment-268</link>
		<dc:creator>LABH SINGH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=150#comment-268</guid>
		<description>SIR,
I AM A PH.D. STUDENT FOR MARKETING STRATEGY OF BSNL (A GOVT COMPANY IN INDIA)IN PUNJAB(INDIA).IT TOOK ME THREE YEARS BUT THERE IS NO SIGN OF MY DRAFT THESIS SO FAR.
SOMETIMES I FEEL &#039;IS IT NOT A WASTE TO DO PH.D.?&#039;
BUT I AM NOT ABLE TO LEAVE THIS AS IT KEEPS ME ENGAGED.
THANX
LABH SINGH</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SIR,<br />
I AM A PH.D. STUDENT FOR MARKETING STRATEGY OF BSNL (A GOVT COMPANY IN INDIA)IN PUNJAB(INDIA).IT TOOK ME THREE YEARS BUT THERE IS NO SIGN OF MY DRAFT THESIS SO FAR.<br />
SOMETIMES I FEEL &#8216;IS IT NOT A WASTE TO DO PH.D.?&#8217;<br />
BUT I AM NOT ABLE TO LEAVE THIS AS IT KEEPS ME ENGAGED.<br />
THANX<br />
LABH SINGH</p>
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		<title>By: Micheal Hickerson</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2008/10/are-phds-a-waste-product/comment-page-1/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>Micheal Hickerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 13:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=150#comment-75</guid>
		<description>Bousquet provides a helpful analogy.  He compares the academy to other highly educated professionals, like lawyers or doctors.  The receipt of the JD or MD signals the beginning of &quot;real work&quot; for lawyers and doctors, and their admittance into &quot;the guild.&quot; He contrasts the PhD, and notes that, by the time someone receives their PhD, they may have already been doing the &quot;real work&quot; of academic instruction for 7 or 8 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bousquet provides a helpful analogy.  He compares the academy to other highly educated professionals, like lawyers or doctors.  The receipt of the JD or MD signals the beginning of &#8220;real work&#8221; for lawyers and doctors, and their admittance into &#8220;the guild.&#8221; He contrasts the PhD, and notes that, by the time someone receives their PhD, they may have already been doing the &#8220;real work&#8221; of academic instruction for 7 or 8 years.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Grosh</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2008/10/are-phds-a-waste-product/comment-page-1/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Grosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 01:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=150#comment-73</guid>
		<description>An interesting question regarding denominational liberal arts colleges.  I did not experience issues with long term ABD&#039;s at Grove City College or Geneva College, but I&#039;ll ask around some friends from some other denominational liberal arts colleges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting question regarding denominational liberal arts colleges.  I did not experience issues with long term ABD&#8217;s at Grove City College or Geneva College, but I&#8217;ll ask around some friends from some other denominational liberal arts colleges.</p>
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		<title>By: Micheal Hickerson</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2008/10/are-phds-a-waste-product/comment-page-1/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>Micheal Hickerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 20:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=150#comment-71</guid>
		<description>I am now three chapters into the book (I must confess - labor theory is not part of my background, so it is heavy treading for me), but I am becoming bothered by a lack of statistics.  No question, there is an ample case by Bousquet for the poor treatment of graduate students and the lack of respect for teaching at research universities, but Tobin&#039;s questions above are not addressed so far. 

A friend who has spent his career at denominational liberal arts colleges, meanwhile, told me last week that his schools have tended to have the opposite problem.  When they post an opening, they receive very few applicants who meet the minimum academic requirements, and positions often come down to just two or three candidates who have the right degrees. (Which may explain Christian colleges&#039; willingness to hire ABD, which, in turn, leads to the ABD faculty member having a very hard time removing the &quot;AB&quot; from their &quot;D.&quot;) 

What have others experienced?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am now three chapters into the book (I must confess &#8211; labor theory is not part of my background, so it is heavy treading for me), but I am becoming bothered by a lack of statistics.  No question, there is an ample case by Bousquet for the poor treatment of graduate students and the lack of respect for teaching at research universities, but Tobin&#8217;s questions above are not addressed so far. </p>
<p>A friend who has spent his career at denominational liberal arts colleges, meanwhile, told me last week that his schools have tended to have the opposite problem.  When they post an opening, they receive very few applicants who meet the minimum academic requirements, and positions often come down to just two or three candidates who have the right degrees. (Which may explain Christian colleges&#8217; willingness to hire ABD, which, in turn, leads to the ABD faculty member having a very hard time removing the &#8220;AB&#8221; from their &#8220;D.&#8221;) </p>
<p>What have others experienced?</p>
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		<title>By: Samuel Lopez De Victoria, Ph.D.</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2008/10/are-phds-a-waste-product/comment-page-1/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel Lopez De Victoria, Ph.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:50:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=150#comment-70</guid>
		<description>I see several incongruities on campuses: 
1)	I find it amusing how academic institutions process students like cattle. My institution has 160,000 of these. Most students, in my opinion, are lost and barely figure out their way almost right up to graduation. Colleges and universities promote their products and recruit the students. Somehow, the student joins a bunch of Lemming-like followers who are at the mercy of whatever happens. In a moment of rare destiny, a student might encounter a caring and loving professor who takes interest in providing enlightening wisdom. He figures out the game and how he can change the world. Meanwhile the masses of young learners are still bouncing around without a compass. 

2)	You take the previous scenario and add to it that on many campuses the great majority of professors/instructors are only part-timers with little or no benefits. Never mind that these are some of the most current, creative, exciting, and progressive individuals due to being in the actual real world applying their craft. As an adjunct professor of some years now, I get frustrated applying for full time positions and clearing interview hurdles only to find out that a younger, less experienced, and sometimes prettier person with smaller CV’s and no Ph.D. gets hired. We adjuncts often feel like we are at the bottom of the feeding chain. Consequently I am seriously thinking about staying on the non-academic track as my main career. I have a successful private psychotherapy practice. 


3)	If you happen to be in a research institution you will see the Arts being sliced right out of existence in favor of making room to build the new pharmacological intervention experimentation lab that will bring millions in grants and royalty fees collected. You’ll also see narcissistic professors abusively using their slave labor of graduate students to prop up their massive egos. I have a good friend who was a department director on a large campus. He would tell me how he would be evaluated by department chairs mostly on whether he could publish and attract dollars. Hardly any points were given to him for the fact that he was the favorite professor of undergraduates and graduate students. He is an amazing instructor. He would also inform me that tenured professors would show up only one time to classes and that was to give the only exam to the class. In the meanwhile these classes were handled by graduate students if at all. When comparing research institutions to community colleges, most of my former students tell me that they hate the fact that professors in research institutions “don’t give a hoot.” about teaching well or about them. That is their perception. 

In the end, I think that the system needs a revolution from within or be replaced with a better model.

Samuel Lopez De Victoria, Ph.D.
http://www.DrSam.tv</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see several incongruities on campuses:<br />
1)	I find it amusing how academic institutions process students like cattle. My institution has 160,000 of these. Most students, in my opinion, are lost and barely figure out their way almost right up to graduation. Colleges and universities promote their products and recruit the students. Somehow, the student joins a bunch of Lemming-like followers who are at the mercy of whatever happens. In a moment of rare destiny, a student might encounter a caring and loving professor who takes interest in providing enlightening wisdom. He figures out the game and how he can change the world. Meanwhile the masses of young learners are still bouncing around without a compass. </p>
<p>2)	You take the previous scenario and add to it that on many campuses the great majority of professors/instructors are only part-timers with little or no benefits. Never mind that these are some of the most current, creative, exciting, and progressive individuals due to being in the actual real world applying their craft. As an adjunct professor of some years now, I get frustrated applying for full time positions and clearing interview hurdles only to find out that a younger, less experienced, and sometimes prettier person with smaller CV’s and no Ph.D. gets hired. We adjuncts often feel like we are at the bottom of the feeding chain. Consequently I am seriously thinking about staying on the non-academic track as my main career. I have a successful private psychotherapy practice. </p>
<p>3)	If you happen to be in a research institution you will see the Arts being sliced right out of existence in favor of making room to build the new pharmacological intervention experimentation lab that will bring millions in grants and royalty fees collected. You’ll also see narcissistic professors abusively using their slave labor of graduate students to prop up their massive egos. I have a good friend who was a department director on a large campus. He would tell me how he would be evaluated by department chairs mostly on whether he could publish and attract dollars. Hardly any points were given to him for the fact that he was the favorite professor of undergraduates and graduate students. He is an amazing instructor. He would also inform me that tenured professors would show up only one time to classes and that was to give the only exam to the class. In the meanwhile these classes were handled by graduate students if at all. When comparing research institutions to community colleges, most of my former students tell me that they hate the fact that professors in research institutions “don’t give a hoot.” about teaching well or about them. That is their perception. </p>
<p>In the end, I think that the system needs a revolution from within or be replaced with a better model.</p>
<p>Samuel Lopez De Victoria, Ph.D.<br />
<a href="http://www.DrSam.tv" rel="nofollow">http://www.DrSam.tv</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tom Grosh</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2008/10/are-phds-a-waste-product/comment-page-1/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Grosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:33:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=150#comment-68</guid>
		<description>Related, visit &lt;a href=&quot;http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2008/10/2008100901c.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;What am I doing?  Shouldn&#039;t seven years of graduate school have helped me avoid taking a job just to have a job?&lt;/a&gt; for a humanities PhD candidate facing a &quot;crossroads&quot; in her &quot;Choose Your Own Adventure! book&quot; life.  I taste the angst through the writing, but I agree with Tobin that stats would be helpful.  Anyone have such information at their fingertips?  If not, I&#039;ll rummage/google on Monday.  BTW, here&#039;s the conclusion of the Chronicle Careers piece:

&quot;I am at a crossroads. I could apply for faculty positions or go the nonacademic route. I could look at postdocs or think about getting a master&#039;s in public health. I could give it all up, continue to teach the dance classes that have helped pay the bills, finally plan my wedding, become a trophy wife, and be the most interesting person at every cocktail party.

My life is my own Choose Your Own Adventure! book. And I really just want to read ahead to make sure I&#039;m not on the path that leads to me tripping in the abandoned mansion and falling into the never-ending pit.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Related, visit <a href="http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2008/10/2008100901c.htm" rel="nofollow">What am I doing?  Shouldn&#8217;t seven years of graduate school have helped me avoid taking a job just to have a job?</a> for a humanities PhD candidate facing a &#8220;crossroads&#8221; in her &#8220;Choose Your Own Adventure! book&#8221; life.  I taste the angst through the writing, but I agree with Tobin that stats would be helpful.  Anyone have such information at their fingertips?  If not, I&#8217;ll rummage/google on Monday.  BTW, here&#8217;s the conclusion of the Chronicle Careers piece:</p>
<p>&#8220;I am at a crossroads. I could apply for faculty positions or go the nonacademic route. I could look at postdocs or think about getting a master&#8217;s in public health. I could give it all up, continue to teach the dance classes that have helped pay the bills, finally plan my wedding, become a trophy wife, and be the most interesting person at every cocktail party.</p>
<p>My life is my own Choose Your Own Adventure! book. And I really just want to read ahead to make sure I&#8217;m not on the path that leads to me tripping in the abandoned mansion and falling into the never-ending pit.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: David O'Hara</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2008/10/are-phds-a-waste-product/comment-page-1/#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>David O'Hara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 03:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=150#comment-61</guid>
		<description>This is old news.  Here&#039;s William James&#039; take on it over a century ago:

http://www.des.emory.edu/mfp/octopus.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is old news.  Here&#8217;s William James&#8217; take on it over a century ago:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.des.emory.edu/mfp/octopus.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.des.emory.edu/mfp/octopus.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tobin</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2008/10/are-phds-a-waste-product/comment-page-1/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Tobin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 16:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=150#comment-49</guid>
		<description>Tough call. 

Many grad students are employees, but all grad students are, well, students.  

I would love to know:

The percentage of PhD&#039;s who don&#039;t get a job in a profession that doesn&#039;t value the PhD (so include both faculty and also administration jobs and other expert positions)

The same percentage for grad students with assistantships.

In other words, there may be a glut, but is it really true that being a funded grad student is the last academic job for most/many students?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tough call. </p>
<p>Many grad students are employees, but all grad students are, well, students.  </p>
<p>I would love to know:</p>
<p>The percentage of PhD&#8217;s who don&#8217;t get a job in a profession that doesn&#8217;t value the PhD (so include both faculty and also administration jobs and other expert positions)</p>
<p>The same percentage for grad students with assistantships.</p>
<p>In other words, there may be a glut, but is it really true that being a funded grad student is the last academic job for most/many students?</p>
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		<title>By: PRT</title>
		<link>http://blog.emergingscholars.org/2008/10/are-phds-a-waste-product/comment-page-1/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>PRT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emergingscholars.org/?p=150#comment-47</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m beginning to agree with Bousquet, though he&#039;s not the only one who has identified this trend.  Nelson and Watt argued something very similar in /Academic Keywords/. However, I will say that the flooded job market is a symptom of the same problem: there more graduate students than there are eventual jobs for them in part because grad students are cheap labor compared to tenured faculty. 

Especially in the humanities, where grad students and adjuncts often teach a high percentage of classes, it is telling that this is one of the few places Universities make money off of tuition dollars. The University needs cheap labor in most areas in order to make a profit so they can funnel the money to the projects/departments that are not self sufficient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m beginning to agree with Bousquet, though he&#8217;s not the only one who has identified this trend.  Nelson and Watt argued something very similar in /Academic Keywords/. However, I will say that the flooded job market is a symptom of the same problem: there more graduate students than there are eventual jobs for them in part because grad students are cheap labor compared to tenured faculty. </p>
<p>Especially in the humanities, where grad students and adjuncts often teach a high percentage of classes, it is telling that this is one of the few places Universities make money off of tuition dollars. The University needs cheap labor in most areas in order to make a profit so they can funnel the money to the projects/departments that are not self sufficient.</p>
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